Save this article to read it later.
Find this story in your accountsSaved for Latersection.
Picture going back ten years and telling someone the National andTaylor Swiftwould make a song together.
No matter what else happened with the groups long-awaited comeback, this song would be an event.
The Alcott began as a sparse piano track that Aaron Dessner gave to front man Matt Berninger.
After Berninger wrote a vocal, Dessner thought about sending it to his friend andfolklorecollaborator.
The band built up an arrangement and finished it from there.
When Swifts voice enters, its unmistakable and far from buried in the mix.
How finished was the song when you sent it to Taylor?
We had so much music we had been working on.
There were, like, 25 ideas.
To be honest, it wasnt the kind of song we intended to write for the record.
We had been making a lot of other things up-tempo or loud rock songs.
This was more my version of a Leonard Cohen or a Nick Cave song.
But there was something about that song I thought shed really respond to.
She quickly rewrote it as this conversation or dialogue between two lovers.
That helped shape where we went with the production of it.
We added a lot of the other elements the orchestration and the drums.
We always experiment and try a lot of things.
I think when she first heard it, it was just piano and Matt.
She loves the National and had heard a lot of what we were working on.
Id send it to her.
I wasnt openly saying, Id love if you could do something, and she wasnt saying that either.
Itd just depend on the song.
The National are no strangers to collaborations.
I often perceive it as being one more texture in very dense arrangements.
It cuts like a knife.
Compositionally, its very intentional.
Her countermelodies in the chorus and the bridge its like two lovers almost talking over each other.
Its something thats much bolder than someone singing along or just harmonizing.
That is her gift: She has a storytellers mind and a musical sense of boldness.
Shes not coloring it in; shes fully another character in the story.
In the verse, Matt is talking about finding someone and theyre writing in their golden notebook.
In a way, I was like,Is that Taylor?
Or is it some fictional character?She inhabits this story as her own character.
That makes it a true feature.
This is not the first time they sang together he was on coney island onevermore.
She sang on a song from your other band, Big Red Machine, in 2021.
Was bringing her into the Nationals world different than those other collaborations?
Were you more nervous?I wouldnt say I was more nervous.
Big Red Machine is not a typical band dynamic.
But in another way, the whole reason I know Taylor is the National and her being a fan.
It felt very natural.
I think were one of her favorite bands, and she has inspired us.
This is the first time youre doing a National album after folklore and evermore.
Having spent that time in her world, did that experience change your ambition with the National?
I did all this work.
I really had such an amazing experience and learned so much.
It was a difficult time during the pandemic.
To find the thread again … Taylor had said this.
She kind of predicted wed come back and lean on each other and make our best record.
Thats, to me, how it feels.
People always debate our records.
No matter what, we have collections of ugly ducklings.
Were never going to write a perfect rock song.
Were never going to do the thing we set out to do.
All we can do is this uncovering of these awkward songs.
They grow on us and grow on other people.
It takes a while to hear them, and thats what makes them special.
But I think thats changed so radically.
Like Taylor, shes more hands-on and craft oriented than anyone Ive ever met.
I never felt like she was a major-label superstar.
Working with her was not unlike working with an indie artist.
Yeah, its great to think her fans might hear our band.
I know a lot of our fans fell in love with her music.
Im personally tired of that feeling, indie or alternative it doesnt mean anything anymore.
A lot of my favorite music is on giant labels.
Some indie labels operate like major labels now.
Its a blurry thing.
We have no interest in that.
And honestly, it kind of bugs us sometimes.
It took us a little while to figure this interview out.
It seemed there was a bit of an aversion to focusing on the Taylor song.
I was curious was there a concern of preserving the mystery of it ahead of release?
Or a worry it could overshadow the rest of the album?
Youve set up a comeback era, talking aboutFirst Two Pagesas an ultimate National album.
Its important to allow the record to be itself and hear the song in context.
Of course we had to be careful to not let it leak.
Its just the reality of her life; people constantly attempt to get her one way or another.
Any shred of information about her is catnip for the media.
You mentioned an abundance of music, including more rock-oriented songs.
Most of them are as good as anything on this record.
We will do something with the other material.
it’s possible for you to hear bits of it, like Eucalyptus or Grease in Your Hair.
Itll go to a different emotional place.
We sound like ourselves, you know what I mean?
