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So you were actually in a culinary band called the Sonic Catering Band.
What was that like?Yeah, we started in about 1996.
It was so expensive.
I wanted to keep doing things, but I couldnt afford film.
We did that up until the early 2000s, and then I got back into film around then.
Or just record?We performed.
We did a whole mixture of things, from traditional rock-band stuff to galleries.
We toured around Europe, we did a six-hour shift once in this restaurant in Geneva.
Basically we were at the mercy of whatever the people in the restaurant would order.
We piped it out at the same level as Muzak so it wasnt intense or intrusive.
For this film, we got back together.
I needed their gear, basically.
They have all the gear and we use that gear in the film.
They did some work on the soundtrack as well.
We were not the only ones back then.
Matthew Herbert was performing a little bit as well with theVienna Vegetable Orchestra.
They were slightly different; they were using vegetables as percussion.
Whereas we were not playing anything as instruments.
We were documenting cooking.
We were not performing when we recorded.
Did you do anything as outre and dramatic as Elle and her band?Oh no.
Well … we did a few things, yeah.
We were young then.
I wouldnt do those things now.
Its a bit undignified at my age.
Im a big fan of bands that use very intense volume, like Swans or My Bloody Valentine.
Theres a kind of submission you go through as an audience member thats very satisfying.
Being purged, somehow, by the sheer weight of sound.
It all feels intertwined withBerberian Sound Studio, another movie specifically about creating and mutating sound.
People were making them about Queen and Elton John; Madonna was about to do something.
I liked the idea of doing it with a band that nobody has heard of.
That seemed quite perverse to me.
Its not good, what theyre doing to Stones; theyre kind of piggybacking onto his troubles.
It opened a door to looking at the stomach in hopefully a sympathetic way.
I hadnt really seen that done; Im not aware of it being done in films so much.
Which is odd, because its such a common thing now.
Those symptoms he has can be indicative of not just celiac but Crohns disease, IBS.
But its often hidden out of the way or done as a sort of frat-boy comedy.
There was space for something a bit more involving, not just as a joke.
Do you have it or know someone close to you who has celiac?
I have stomach stuff, and it felt extremely relatable.Everyone knows someone.
But I just really wanted to go there.
The question is, how do you do it in a dignified manner?
Anything to do with wind, you fire off the risk of the audience laughing.
The character of Elle is obsessed with taboo and breaking taboos.
I find it personally to be a bit of a cul-de-sac.
Any of us can break a taboo.
To me, its not so interesting.
Not that Im trying to make some public-information film.
I am, but it depends on the context.
Ive definitely been in Stoness shoes.Im sorry you go through that.
More and more people have stomach issues.
I dont know if its to do with food or the way its processed these days?
Im not a doctor.
But there is the question of, how do you deal with it without being vulgar?
Obviously theres vulgarity in the film, with Elle and her smearing [human excrement or is it?
If somebody dies in my films, nobody cares.
Then you have R-ratings for women suffering all kinds of traumas.
I guess the film is prodding at that.
Elles character is quite different from what Im doing; shell do anything she can to shock an audience.
And yeah, she goes too far.
The dilemma I have as a filmmaker is that I have to follow what she does.
I dont want to end up like GG Allin, smearing himself in his own excrement.
To me its not that shocking.
The nature of this kind of film is that its not for everyone.
You just have to accept that people are going to hate it.
We spoke about it a lot, in terms of how to do it without it falling flat.
The risk of being laughed at is the scariest risk when you make a film.
We were quite anxious about that.
There is humor in the film, but for me the humor is the bands bickering.
But you hand it to an audience, and thats it.
You cant control it.
It feels like these movies are in conversation with each other.
Have you seen it?I would love to see it.
Ive heard its really intense.
Not that Im name-dropping.
We were just moaning about making films.
But we didnt talk about his dad at all.
Is that how you see the reality of making art?
Even beyond the band.
Theres part of me in [the gleefully malevolent medical professional] Dr. Glock.
There is a sadist and a masochist in filmmakers.
I like embracing the idea of deceit and being devious.
As someone who writes and directs, I go through euphoric moments of confidence to extreme self-doubt.
You dont take your confidence too seriously or your self-doubt too seriously.
You just plow ahead somehow.
To expose yourself physically and emotionally to strangers, its like, why do we do that?
We all do it, not just filmmakers.
People on Twitter and social media.
Im not judging it.
I am just fascinated by that conundrum.
And then Lamina talking about catharsis and purging, which is this unknowable thing you cant put into words.
I get that from certain filmmakers or bands, where I do feel purged.
I really chase that almost religiously.
What do you mean?I grew up as an Orthodox.
Its instilled in you from an early age, sin.
But Im at peace with my sins.
Every filmmaker has those grueling conversations.
But it would be too easy just to turn Gwendoline Christies character into the bad, interfering financier.
The flanger is a MacGuffin that explores their egos.
But I am fascinated by it.
Partly because I actually mistook the flanger myself when I was in the band.
We used it a lot in the film.
I was like, [throws up hands].If I had known I might have changed it.
Sound has always been a significant element in your movies.
Its incredibly specific and usually really trancelike and hypnotic.
I had to look it up, and I was like, Oh my God, this is me!
So I was using those types of sounds in all my films without knowing I was doing it.
I never had an intellectual response to it, and I always wondered, Whats wrong with me?
I adore this music but cant be theoretical about it.
In a selfish way, I have a go at make films that I would enjoy.
We use analog a lot, and it really pays off.
You half-hear it, submerged in the mix.
Its like youre half-asleep.
Did you hear it?
I cant remember if I did.I think only wed notice it.
Its there but not there.
The shooting was difficult.
We had 14 days; sometimes we got something and sometimes we had no time.
Heres the camera, shoot this, shoot that, done.
But with the sound we had time.
Pardon my lack of modesty, but Im very happy with the sound.
Yeah, I can see parts where it just doesnt quite get there.
But thats always the way.
This reminds of me the moment when Stones is just like, Im a hack writer.
What would you do differently if you had more time?Just better camera placement sometimes.
The scene with Fatma and the tomato soup, we only had two takes.
So literally, Tim, who was shooting it, would just follow Fatma around.
Seventeen days was the shortest for my first film.
Its funny, I do relate to that hack line.
On the side, I write for other people.
Most of us do other jobs.
You cant live off the job you love.
The cost of living is insane these days.
You do what you have to do.
I got a taste of it when I did aconcert film with Bjork.
Initially, I was very much into doing my own thing, but then I really enjoyed it.
She was so great to work with.
I kind of liked the idea of serving someones vision.
Its opened up something inside me that I didnt think I had before.
When I make my films, I get quite protective and I guess I do get into arguments.
But if Im working for someone else, I just let go.
I do whatever they want.
So I relate to Stones a lot.
And I dont think theres anything wrong with being a hack or see hack as a dirty word.
People who are not hacks tend to just be very rich.[Laughs.]
Lets be honest about it.
Id put myself in that category as well then.Im trying to do hack jobs in film!
I never get the jobs.
But I have tried.
I will do what you tell me to do!
Im not gonna try and usurp your vision.
Its practice for me, and its money.
It takes over your life.
Id love to just do episode seven of something.
Or a soap opera.
This interview has been condensed and edited for clarity.
