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Shes all sound and fury, signifying everything.
The two can barely stand each other, but also clearly have no idea how to live apart.
I had not directed a movie yet.
I mean, Id directed an experimental movie calledLooking for Jimmythat I self-financed for $20,000 or something.
Nobody wanted to give me money.
I was like, How can I trick people into giving me money?
Without even a screenplay at first.
And then two months before shooting they were like, Why dont you write a screenplay?
So I went off and wrote a screenplay.
It came very quickly.
I literally wrote day and night for two months.
I knew exactly who I was writing for.
Same with2 Days in New York.
Chris Rock agreed before he read everything.
When youve lost all other possibilities, you play tricks.
Why do you think you had such a hard time getting money?
Was it just that you were a woman and it was the early 2000s?It was another world.
I saw all of my friends going through difficult times Jamie Babbit, for example.
People didnt trust women.
And maybe Im not good at selling myself.
Ive never been good at that.
I think really it was just not as easy.
So there has been progress for women filmmakers.
And she said, No.
Shes about eight years younger than me.
So I went, Oh, I see.
So eight years made a difference between hell and not hell.
Not easy, but not hell.
Thats when it started in Europe; it started shifting sooner.
In the U.S. its recent; I would say the past five years.
I feel like Im coming into an office and theres no questioning.
Its still like that.
They took all my notes for free, but gave the job to a guy.
I dont go to those meetings anymore for that reason.
Why would I take a screenplay thats not working out and not get the job as a director?
But it was a common thing.
Were more attached to our creativity because we had to fight for it.
Actresses and stars have to support women directors.
Ive had a very bad experience in the U.S. with one actress in particular.
People claiming feminist ideas.
Youre dealing with that constantly.
Sometimes the enemy of women is women.
Its the sad reality.
Its been so hard for some people to get somewhere that they have this competitiveness within them.
I dont think its their fault.
I think its the system.
I personally adore women.
I was raised by a feminist.
A woman who loved women.
My mom always had beautiful friends.
Ive always loved all women of all shapes and forms and social backgrounds.
I support my women friends who are writing, help them out, attempt to find ways for them.
Id expect the same.
But we live in a not-so-simple world.
Im not saying the old generation of women is all like that.
Laura Dern is amazing.
I want to return to the idea of tricking studio executives into giving you money.
Lets do the same.In the end, people want to do the same thing over and over.
Its a very tough business.
it’s possible for you to bet on something and lose everything.
Its not like buying a house.
Its a complete gamble.
You invest in a movie and you dont know if youre going to get your money back.
Here in the U.S., its the Wild West.
Did you have an easier time withMy Zoe?
Did it ever get any easier?No.
I dont know for who its easy.
I had one comedy in France,Lolo, a mainstream comedy that I directed, which was easier.
But2 Days in New York everyone made money except me.
In the end,2 Days in New Yorkalmost fell through in the middle of shooting.
An investor didnt deliver the money in time and everyone stopped.
So what happened?Last-minute, somebody else stepped in.
It was a nightmare.
I think I smoked, like, five packs of cigarettes in two days.
I almost killed myself.
The producer was not really …
It was a tough one.
But you survive and keep on going until the day you cant keep on going.
What keeps you going, if its been this exhausting uphill battle?Truly, I just love movies.
Its like, wow, the power of film.
My life, personally, really evolved with movies.
I was living through movies.
I went to the cinematheque almost every day with my dad.
I learned everything through movies.
It can be entertainment, it can be like a book, a philosophical journey.
So thats why I keep on going.
2 Days in Pariswas my first real film with someone giving me actual money to make it.
It was very hard work, but we had a lot of fun doing it.
Nineteen days to shoot.
It was really intense.
We didnt have rights to shoot in the subway.
It was that kind of movie.
Its a lot of stress but its not too heavy.
You dont have a million producers on your back telling you what to do.
Because they gave you so little money, they dont worry as much.
I was just rewatching theBeforefilms.
The women you play are outspoken and funny and talk about feminism and gender dynamics.
A lot of them are called neurotic in the film and in criticisms of the film.
Is this woman you?They are.
Because Im writing them.
In a way, Im attached to playing those characters.
I like multifaceted parts of who I am.
Celine is part of me, the character of Isabelle inMy Zoeis also a part of me.
The anxious mother that I am.
And determined, who never gives up.
A man can be the greatest supporter of women, and my dad is that.
Ive never seen inequality in my home, ever.
I had no idea.
My parents had warned me, because they were in the theater world.
I had heard all of those stories.
And I was very defensive on that level.
There are traps that exist.
I was aware of them.
It also struck me that in both theBeforemovies and2 Days in Paris, a man calls your character crazy.
Ive read that Ethan Hawke would call you crazy inearly interviews, too.
Im curious about your reaction to being perceived that way.You know, its interesting.
Its someone that doesnt fit in completely.
I dont think Im crazy.
I rarely lose it.
I tell people, especially when I drive, to fuck themselves.
One day Im going to be shot.
Im crazy because I have crazy thoughts.
I react emotionally to things.
The first time I was called crazy is when I said no to someone in the movie business.
you’re able to be called crazy just for not wanting to play the game.
So that person went around and kept on calling me crazy and it damaged my career.
What were you saying no to?He wanted me to have sex with him.
I told him no, and he called me crazy.
Thats the first thing that got people to say that Im crazy.
I know so many women who have been called crazy but arent crazy at all.
Maybe a little bit emotional, but no more so than some guys.
Women that are a bit complicated, but no more so than other people.
Ive also heard from people, Oh, that person is so difficult.
Im not saying there arent difficult women who are a handful to emotionally manage.
There are so many assholes.
I think its equal.
Harvey Weinstein discredited women by calling them crazy.Yes, thats what he would do.
Im not linked to him in any way.
I mean, he released one of my films, and thats it.
I was invited to the Four Seasons and I said no because I was already aware of his reputation.
So I kind of disconnected quickly and never worked for any of his productions.
But [Me Too] is a movement.
Theres a huge difference.
You cant put everyone in the same bag.
We have to be vigilant, as women, so it doesnt discredit the real victims.
Which sometimes can happen.
To your point about anger, it plays such an important role in your films and characters.
You have a great way of making anger funny.
Men kind of love to see women going crazy.
Its just a thing.
I think they enjoy it.
I have to tell you, the most pain-in-the-butt women I know always have boyfriends.
And really nice ones!
Men who arent insecure usually dont care.
So youre saying you lose your temper and go crazy?
I just think theres a reflection of reality there that you dont always see with female characters.
In2 Days in Paris, when she goes, Im sorry, I got angry.
Ill never get angry again!
Im curious about your relationship to anger and how you bake it into your work.
Even inMy Zoe, theres so much anger, thats what drives her.
You want to avoid getting angry.
But then the dynamic of comedy if youre a perfect person and youre super-zen, its not funny.
Its harder to bring humor to a flawless character.
And what is flawless, anyway?
I think the flaws and the complicated human being that youre describing is like, life.
Thered be no scene.
Women characters who are multifaceted, that is my goal.
I always remember readingHamlet,and the teacher was saying that Hamlet is everything.
He was crazy, he was kind, he was needy, he was all of it.
And then you had Ophelia, who was one thing.
I was like, I dont wanna play Ophelia!
I want to play Hamlet.
I dont wanna play this bore who dies!
I want to play the fighter who has 20 thoughts a minute and conflicting feelings.
It brings me to places that … it hurts me, sometimes.
The anger in me, sometimes its just … its a reflection of what Ive been through.
Its a reflection of fear and anxiety.
That was his first reaction.
We couldnt get him out of the room.
I had to go in and beg him to stop losing his mind.
Some people react like that to pain.
I think the character inMy Zoeis a bit like that.
I have a tendency to react to pain not by crying.
I have a tendency to revolt.
My husband always tells me, Leave the weapon at the door.
He should really be in jail.
Why shouldnt she be angry?
I guess its, how do you find ways that anger is directed in a positive, constructive way.
Greta Thunberg is angry, and she should be, at the world were preparing for children.
People I admire who fought for their rights, theyre angry and they should be.
Its the good anger.
It drives a lot of progress.
Women, the feminist movement if they werent tired of the 50s, there wouldnt have been the 60s.
Whats not good is when you start hurting yourself.
I kept being like, Shes not doing anything wrong!
What was his appeal to you?Wow, the standards have really evolved in the new generation.
Men better be careful.
To me, Jack is a nice guy.
Hes kind of complain-y, but thats nothing compared to a real abusive asshole.
Hes not really abusive.
Their dynamic is funny.
Hes kind of cute.
Hes kind of lost.
Hes unable to express his feelings.
Unable to manage his emotions.
I find that endearing.
As much as I love flawed women, I love flawed men, too.
I like his tattoos.Thats it?!
I am obsessed with your father, though, who plays himself in both movies.
I havent shown that side of him.
If theres one person thats crazy, its my dad.
Hes an unpredictable human being.
Hes 80 years old and has the spark of a 25-year-old.
I mean, a 10-year-old, if anything.
Im like, Dad, youre 80 years old.
I read an old interview with you where you said, Sometimes I dream that Im Larry David.
I put myself in situations.
I always tell the truth to people.I am completely unable to control.
Im bad at lying, pretending, living through the codes.
I said, Youre fucking nuts.
Even someone I knew!
And she was like, Youre right.
Nobody dared to tell me.
Has that quality been a hindrance to you in Hollywood?It was not good at the beginning.
I have to say, its never great.
Now Im very careful, especially with the press and stuff.
Because I say it bluntly and people turn it around, now with social media.
you might have enemies by saying, Save the planet!
Like, Oh, that bitch wants to save the planet!
Everything you say and do now is under scrutiny, and its traumatic.
Everything can be interpreted as anything nowadays.
Its not great in this business.
I think I have a weird mental issue.
I think they have a name for it now.
Its like a form of disability.
I have no capability of not speaking my mind.
Its actually a condition.
Now they have a condition for everything!
I read somewhere that its calledsomething-somethingsyndrome.
Im sure I have it now.
So maybe I can claim disability.
[Laughs.]No.
No, its not a disability.
I dont want to say disability and people get mad at me.
Its a mental issue.
After all that said.
And you know what?
Crazy is the other side to me: people who control everything.
