Juliette Binoche and Ralph Fiennes on years of sharing scenes and hotel-room walls.
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Juliette BinocheandRalph Fiennesare sitting in a hotel room in New York, giggling like mischievous children.
All are literary adaptations, and all sweepingly romantic, in their way.
The real-life dynamic between the two seems just as complex.
Do you have a good time doing these interviews?
she asks, laughing.
Are we gonna do all the actors Im working with?
All the couples?!
Fiennes chimes in, slyly: If you do any other male actors, Ill be very jealous.
It was in a room in Mayfair and we read together.
I was in awe of her, because Id seen you inUnbearable Lightness of Being.
I was very excited and a bit fluttery.
Juliette Binoche:The first time I saw you was in that doorway in my room.
As soon as I saw him, I said,Oh my god.
Id better watch out or Im gonna fall in love with this guy.
After he started speaking, I thought,My god, he has the same voice asDaniel Day-Lewis!
Its gonna be a nightmare!
]And then you weremarriedanyway.
:As good as, yeah.
J.B.:And we went on a journey ofWuthering Heights.It was a difficult shoot.
:It was difficult.
:Is that the first time you were performing in English?
I moved to Yorkshire and all of that.
:Also there were reasons that perhaps theres no point unearthing, but the production was not entirely coherent.
The way it was being run was a bit tricky.
How so?R.F.
:It was being produced by what was then British Paramount.
If you look at the book, its a brutal love story, and Heathcliff is a brutal figure.
Its traumatic, its full of shadows and darkness, and stuff thats quite ugly.
Which makes it rich.
It was your first movie, Ralph.
:We were a bit restless, but I did feel I had a real ally in Juliette.
[They hold hands across the table.]
J.B.:You did.
I remember Ralph cooking for me a couple of times.
It was like heaven.
I felt I was taken care of.
We had this deep conversation about our lives and childhoods.
When I remember that time, I remember that moment.
I felt like I could hear you and you heard me.
It was this connection.
Its very moving and rare.
What was the rare connection?J.B.
:It was something as deep as brothers.
[She begins to tear up.
:We both love what we do.
The value of what we aspire to, the challenge of it.
The quest to get deeper.
How can you get deeper, more realized?
We dont talk about it.
I find it so inspiring.
Its good in those situations to have a friend.
Juliette, you tease me.
You stop me taking myself too seriously.
J.B.:Its easy to do that with you.
[Both laugh.]
What do you tease him about?J.B.:Everything!
When we say deep, its about truth, but its also about being transparent.
Its nice to be able to talk to and listen to each other and have this place of transparency.
I think we both felt that that scene is the sort of central pivot of our characters relationship.
And you were very articulate and spoke very well about, hey, let us find it.
Let us be in the room.
Watch us find it.
Let your camera choices relate to what happens between us.
J.B.:Sometimes you have to fight for inside and outside space.
Some directors understand that very intuitively.
Andrei Tarkovsky is a good example.
Wim Wenders as well.
Uberto was so eager to get it right sometimes they want to anticipate, to control the situation.
But he very quickly understood he had to leave us and trust what was going to happen.
We didnt know how it was going to unravel!
:Not inWuthering Heights.I felt I was tied up.
And inTheEnglish PatientI felt we were allies as well.
J.B.:So I could do anything because you couldnt move very much.
You had all the makeup.
And I was so free, going around and flying off and coming back.
:But Anthony Minghella was wonderful.
He instinctively understood about giving us space to play.
He would say, What could you show me?
Im interested to know.
It was amazing to watch.
And your relationship with Anthony was very special.
J.B.:You were a little jealous of it.
J.B.:Lovely jealous.
No, I had a relationship with Anthony.
But I could tell that there was a wonderful creative …
J.B.:Connection.
:I mean, I probably can be quite sort of moody and prickly.
J.B.:That was okay for the character.
It served the character.
:I can be kind of … closed.
I could see you being all open with Anthony.
Im there in my makeup.
J.B.:And you couldnt laugh in the makeup!
:I was imprisoned in latex.
Did it feel accurate to you, Juliette?
Was he moody, and were you more open?J.B.
There was a lot for him to think about.
For me, in the character, it was different.
It was about rebirth, falling in love again, and taking care of this patient until the end.
It was very moving.
The scene when I was flying through the church, that wasnt in the book.
But it was a joy and a lightness.
:Being younger, I realize now, you armor yourself.
I thought I was being properly examine-y, but I think sometimes it can be more defensive.
I had more defensive layers then.
Perhaps Ive shed a few.
J.B.:I remember we were staying in the same hotel.
Our rooms were next to each other.
I didnt know until you heard me shout on the phone.
J.B.:I shouted because my boyfriend was very jealous at the time.
And I couldnt understand how he could be jealous like that.
Because I was beingperfect!And then you realized we were next to each other in the hotel.
And then I felt ashamed that I shouted like this.
But it made us laugh a lot.
Did you say to her, I heard you on the phone?J.B.
:Yeah, you said that!
:Did I say that?
I heard you shouting last night?
With my boyfriend, who was crazy jealous.
:And we were so good!
[Both laugh.]
:It was a bit of a failure.
J.B.:You learn to be Buddhist.
You learn to not take it personally if it doesnt work, or if it works so well.
I mean, I learned that.
I dont know if you did.
:Its a learning curve.
I remember feeling disappointment.
It was a famous classic, and reviews were mixed to poor.
J.B.:You have to detach yourself from the nonsense.
:You have to move on.
J.B.:Its interesting.
That was the care of the producers and the distributors.
But as artists it was not as important.
Today, its changed totally.
Now actors put the numbers of their box office on their Instagram.
:Youre saying in French cinema now theres an emphasis on box office over critical success?
Now its about the results.
And if the quality is not good, its fine.
Im not against a film that has success and is working; thats wonderful.
Very artistic films can work well.
But its easy to get into the need for recognition.
We all need recognition, but actors probably need more recognition than normal people.
J.B.:Or why would we put ourselves in this place?
:If I may pick one of each?
InWuthering Heights,we were toward the end of shooting and we couldnt bear working on the film anymore.
I felt I was on the verge of losing it.
And I could feel Ralph going,Dont do that.
:OnWuthering Heights,you lost it in a way that was great and brilliant.
And you said, Ihatelimits.
I never forgot that.
I thought,Thats what I want to be.
It was glass, and I broke it so strongly that it opened my fingers and there was blood.
I remember Anthony carrying on the shooting, and Ralph being upset.
And that really touched me.
:OnThe Return,you were not needed one day.
It was an eyeline, not even dialogue.
Between shooting and promotingWuthering HeightsandThe English PatientandThe Return, how often did you see each other?J.B.
:There are times when we dont connect.
And times we do.
J.B.:I came to see you in London to play Macbeth.
You came to see me play Antigone.
:I saw it twice.
What was the longest you went without seeing each other or speaking?J.B.
:I have no idea of time.
As actors, we work so much, we travel so much.
Embodying different times in films, there are moments when youre in another world, in a way.
I live in a place inside me that has no real connection with real time.
Have you developed a shorthand after working together?
A way of communicating in glances, little things you say to each other, code?
[Both stare at each other intensely without speaking.]
Are you doing it right now?J.B.
:I do remember one thing.
But I dont think Im gonna tell it.
R.F.:Dont!
If you have that thought, then dont.
J.B.:Theres respect.
Thats what I feel.
And yet very close.
I can be a little upset with you, but that goes away.
Its not a big thing.
:I dont think Im ever upset, and I hate the idea that I would ever upset Juliette.
If I have, Im sorry.
:Its difficult to answer that.
I know you and yet I dont know you.
:You do know me.
J.B.:I know you.
But I dont know everything about you.
:I feel our friendship has just got deeper.
I feel Juliette sees me.
All my faults, all the things.
And I think I see you.
And I dont know things about you.
Weve met as friends and seen each other in our various plays.
It feels like a really strong friendship.
J.B.:And Ive met your parents.
Its very meaningful to have known your parents.
When did you meet them?J.B.
:Several times I met your mother.
:My mom came to the set ofWuthering Heights.
J.B.:And we had dinner at your place.
He prepared an orange duck.
Hes a very good cook.
:Did I do that?
J.B.:It was so good.
I was sitting in between your mother and father.
When he left the house, he did a little drawing not a little one, a big one.
Things like that stay in your heart.
And Ralph invited me to have breakfast with Jonathan Kent, a director we worked with.
We went to Ralphs house to have brunch; he was preparing it.
And I gave him the bottle thinking we were going to have it together.
We had brunch and didnt open that bottle.
So I was a little disappointed.
I said, Okay, next time well open it.
A few years after, I went to his house hed moved and I said, Wheres the bottle?
Can we open it?
He said, No.
I said, Youre kidding me!
You didnt wait for me?
I said, What?!
[Laughs and smacks the table.]
Did you know it was that fancy?R.F.
:I knew it was a fancy bottle.
I didnt know I was meant to open it at brunch.
J.B.:I forgive you.
And I will see to it we drink it.
Career-wise, you have both made decisions to move away from Hollywood and turned things down thatsurprised people.
Looking back, there are a lot of parallels in the way you guys have navigated your careers.
Did you and do you talk about these sorts of choices?R.F.
:I dont sense we discuss it that much.
But I was always, again, benignly envious of her work.
Amazing directors, all of these auteurs who make the films they want to make.
J.B.:Do you mean youre a little jealous of me?
R.F.:Yes.
Working with Claire Denis …
J.B.:Yeah, but itll come, Ralph.
:Claire Denis doesnt pick up the phone when I call her.
J.B.:I think theater in your life has been such an anchor.
Your love of Shakespeare.
I wasnt regularly in the theater.
Ive done crazy shows, likethe dance showorthe singing show.
But the love of theater is very special.
you could always come back to it.
:Juliette is incredibly brave and makes very interesting choices.
I might make more conventional choices.
J.B.:Ralph has beengoing into directing.
At the moment Im doing it, and I see all the difficulty of it.
:She directed me recently.
In what?J.B.
:Its a short film with Anish Kapoor.
About a ride in Paris, bringing a painting to a collector, and Ralph was playing the collector.
But the producer is not finding the way of producing it.
So I might do it a different way.
I have to find money for it.
Well see; its on hold.
But you played a scene thats very funny.
:She enjoyed pushing me.
J.B.:I was pushing you a lot.
Howd you push him?R.F.
:Shed say, I dont know, Ralph, somethings not connecting.
And then shed say, Yeah, that was good because I irritated you, suddenly it works!
[Both laugh.]
J.B.:You got grumpy.
:You got a bit grumpy, Ralph, but actually this is your best take.
J.B.:I was teasing him a lot.
He played the game very well.
From an acting perspective, have you seen each other get better?
:Ive always felt that Ralph is intense, but in the best way.
Concentrated, committed in the moment, as if its the most important thing hes doing in his life.
:What Ive learned from Juliette is allowing an accident to happen.
I think Im someone who wants to know the root or have the shape of the scene.
But the best acting, particularly on film, is accident.
Istvan Szabo, a Hungarian director, once said to me, Film is about the close-up.
Emotions being born on the face for the first time.
Doing a number of takes, we dread the sense of being stuck.
Weve got to keep moving.
Thats what Juliette is wonderful at.
She just has a deeper instinct of going to the place where something sparks.
J.B.: What you learn as actors is that its not your will doing it.
Its you allowing it tohappeninyou.
It was the third audition, and I hadnt got the place.
Good advice for life, too.
:No, no.
J.B.:No, I remember you had a beautiful gesture.
:The emphasis is onbenign.
Its not,Why arent I doing that?
And you said to me, I should have been Sherlock Holmes!
Do you remember that?
:[Laughs loudly.
]I dont remember that.
J.B.:It was so funny.
Were there ever projects over the years you were almost in together and then werent?
Or that you thought about doing together that didnt work out?R.F.
:Well have to do a play together, Juliette.
Weve talked about it.
I think we just need to find the right thing that moves us, and the right director.
But Id like to think that would be our next reunion: onstage.
And so I was a little … [Makes an exaggerated gulp noise.]
You mean Daniel Day-Lewis?J.B.:No.
J.B.:Well, hes always been kind of busy with his love life.
:I do think its a big love.
The love that can exist between friends.
But did you ever have a crush on Juliette?R.F.
:Oh, yes.
