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Stardom has untold consequences as Pauls life spirals beyond his control, subject to strangers increasingly misguided projections.
I had coffee with Borgli in late September at Fantastic Fest.
We discussed what fueled these two movies that might leave you wanting to log off forever.
(MildDream Scenariospoilers follow.)
We are more physically disconnected, and we have a more parasocial relationship with each other.
Those things seem kind of scary.
YousaidSick of Myselfstarted with an image of a privileged blonde woman in Oslo.
What was the image that kicked offDream Scenario?The dying scream of an antiquated man.
It could be read as a response or a companion piece toSick of Myself.
Theyre definitely both from the perspective of a society where most of our basic needs are taken care of.
We make ourselves miserable in the absence of having that desire met.
Its like your happiness is held hostage to an unattainable goal.
Youre driven by that, and you forget to stop and smell the roses.
Maybe more so inDream Scenario,its about the lack of perspective.
You start out with someone who has a pretty good life, but his perspective is so wrong.
The sickness became a way to photograph something thats very much on everyones minds.
And almost inevitably, you become addicted to the feeling of that success and its gratification.
It can be brain-altering.
Something I think the second half ofDream Scenariocaptures really well is the life cycle of a viral star.
First Paul is beloved, and everybody wants a piece of him.
Then theres a backlash and he loses his job.
Then theres an apology, and the apology is adjudicated and rejected.
You mean how he becomes an alt-right icon after the backlash?
He finds an audience that projects what they want to see onto him.Yeah.
Thats something that happens a lot in our culture.
Even this movie could be naively reduced to one sentence, like,Its about this or that.
Ive already seen some reviews doing that.
Its the bite-size reduction of everything in our culture.
I applied the playbook.
ItsSave the Cat!, the book for writing stories, or Robert McKeesStory.
And then theres the cultural playbook.
Lets throw both together and see what happens.
I saw that as a trivia item on IMDb.
I dont know how that rumor emerged.
It was always medirecting, but it is true that Adam Sandler was attached.
What shifted?I wrote this movie going into the pandemic.
It was set up at A24 in May 2020.
Oh, so beforeSick of Myself.Yeah, andSick of Myselfwas set up around the same time.
My schedule was very abstract:How do we shoot a movie now?
By circumstance, we just couldnt find the perfect timing.
So it ended up being Nicolas Cage, and now I cant unsee that.
You need your protagonist to be able to cut through his neurosis and appreciate the viral fame.
Its almost like hes a mythical creature.
Adding that into the equation of this movie was just hugely interesting.
I dont think of Nicolas Cage as someone whos extremely online and in touch with the arc of virality.
What conversations did you have about that?His first response was, I have been through this.
He understood the bigger philosophy of the movie and the feeling that your persona runs its own course.
I suppose any celebrity can relate to that.Yeah, but him especially.
It feels like Nicolas Cage has become a symbol almost, a Jungian idea.
I think hes sort of in a unique position in that way.
I felt like I needed to hide him a little bit.
Nic Cage has so much natural charisma and energy.
He is an alpha.
Paul is a beta.
How do you shave that off and come down to his level?
His energy comes through in these little tics.
The first half of the movie, hes staying in this beta shell.
Hes wearing his jacket like a protective blanket.
It made that part of the movie even more watchable.
Hes so enthusiastic in that scene.
Thats something he brought.
I love the way he chose to do that.
It made the character more complex.
It became more apparent that hes having an identity crisis.
Did you ever consider including more of the sci-fi element?
Im not very interested in plot.
Plot is a necessary evil.
It has some dream logic to it.
I want people to debate, How much, exactly, is a dream?
And are movies dreams?
Can you trust the movie?
The movie itself is kind of like an unreliable narrator.
Is Nic wearing some kind of bald cap?No, he shaved his head.
It was an idea that Nic had but started regretting right before having to commit to it.
But once he had pitched it, I started falling in love with it.
For better or worse, part of every directors job is to promote their work.
Youre online, you have an Instagram.
There are a couple of comedy videos on your grid.
And youre also critiquing self-promotion and fame in your movies.
Its a good thing.
I have actors who can deflect some of it and take a lot of it off of me.
Youre not Nic Cage, thats true.Exactly.
He will suffer more of this, and thats completely fine with me.
Yeah, its a little bit intimidating, the idea of entering the collective psyche.
Of course it is.
I want to potentially live in some peoples heads but not everyones.
Well, thats what Im saying.
That way, Im in control.
When I put a movie out there, its deliberate.
Ive thought about it.
I want it to live out there.
I hope thats achievable.
Its in my lifetime that fame stopped being a by-product of something else and started becoming a product.
Now it’s possible for you to be recognizable for doing none of those things.
Its not even creativity.
Theres no nutrition in just recognition.
If the recognition is from something we can appreciate that has value, those are nutritional calories.
I think we havent yet grasped how unhealthy this fast fame is.
Do you think this is a preoccupation that will continue to sustain you artistically?
I started in my 20s working in marketing.I was hired to do commercials.
Those were just themes that were really pressing for me.
I think those ideas chose me.
Theyve been ruminating in my head for a while.
With these movies, I kind of feel like Ive had my final word.
For me, its important to respond to the moment that were living in.
I feel like Im always in a constant debate with the world as Im navigating it.
These movies are as much a tool for me to figure some things out.
