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This interview originally ran during the 2023 Venice Film Festival.
Were recirculating it in advance ofGreen Borderstheatrical debut.
Weve also asked Holland an additional question, which can be found at the end of the interview.
after being lured by Belarusian dictator Alexander Lukashenkos propaganda.
The Polish guards at the beginning had been nurturing, and then the order came: No.
They were not allowed access to anyone medics, humanitarian organizations, politicians.
Over the weeks, they became more frail.
A woman was very sick, and one day they disappeared.
It was impossible to help those people, and it was impossible to see what was going on.
Some journalists tried to go there, but very few, I should say.
And some photographers took photos of the zone, the border.
I was friends with some activists who started to quickly organize themselves, and some local people joined.
The disaster was growing.
The winter was coming; even the fall is pretty cold there at night.
They had frozen people in the forest.
It was clear that without help, people were going to die, and they already started dying.
Mid-September, I decided,I cant be an activist and go there with a heavy backpack.
But I know how to make films.
And I will do this to show what theyre trying to hide.
When did you start writing?
We documented it very deeply.
Everything that happens in the film is documented; nothing is invented.
I wanted to start shooting immediately, but we didnt have money.
So it took a year before we were able to shoot it.
and the border countries.
Youre the same as we are.
That moral battle, that moral victory, is maybe even more obvious than the political victory.
They use the refugees as propaganda to create fear among the population and to keep power.
The consequences are dehumanization, and its happening in Poland.
On public television, the most important politicians are saying, Theyre not people, theyre just weapons.
Theyre terrorists, spreading disease and parasites.
How did you land on the stylistic choices and tone for this movie?
And we edited it very fast.
We didnt want to make it sentimental or manipulative.
I think there was a lot of motivation for all of us.
People took low or no salaries.
Im so grateful to everybody for this collective effort.
Has that been a reaction youre getting from the audience?Yes, the reaction has been very strong.
Some people know this particular story but mostly just about the refugee situation from wherever they live.
This connects the dots: If you go, for example, to the Balkans, its terrible there.
In Saudi Arabia, the border guards are using machine guns.
Which was juicy, I have to say.[Laughs.
]But I think he went a bit over the top and into hate speech.
Theyre doing it already.
And some deranged person can turn to violence.
Against me, for example.
Im the most exposed.
Was that something you considered or feared while making it?I fear and I dont fear.
And simple everyday work.
Go to the forest with water and food and shoes and legal papers and help them.
They found her dead in the forest.
Close to the road.
Five minutes from the city.
Its very easy to know who exactly is responsible for her death.
Its not an abstraction.
Was this an emotional experience for you, doing the research and the writing and the directing?
So I have some surgeons coldness.
It means I have to be distant.
Im not crying when Im shooting.
I was very moved and kind of obsessed for a year as I collected photos and videos and statements.
But my obligation is to tell the story, not to cry.
Do you believe artists have a responsibility to make their art political?Not everybody.
It would be very sad if all artists felt they had to be political.
And I think were not fulfilling that obligation enough.
What would you like to see more of?To make more movies about things that matter.
To see the danger when it is born, not 30 years later.
The Holocaust was a vaccination for humanity, especially for Europe, against nationalism and racism.
For respect, for human rights.
And the vaccination created the European Union.
And now its evaporating.
It doesnt work anymore.
There is no simple solution, and democratic and liberal politicians have stopped even looking.
Theyre hiding like an ostrich in the sun.
Make America great again and all that shit.
Because people want to believe the solution is there.
Do you have any hope or optimism about the future?
It seems like you must have a little bit to make this film.Dont ask me about hope.
]In my philosophy, you just have to act.
Whatever it will be, we have to act.
I have hope in the long distance because after the disaster, the sun comes up.
And we are one or two steps further.
So its some kind of progress.
But today were not even sure that the planet will survive.
Do awards matter to you?Its better not to listen to that because it mostly doesnt work.
Buzz is dangerous; it creates expectations.
Im critical of the prizes.
It can happen that you have one of the best films and you dont get the prize.
Its not that I dont care; of course Id like to be recognized.
And for this particular film, for sure.
We have dark forces against us.
To have some gold or silver in my hands would be very efficient.
A film like this needs support.
Nine months after speaking with Holland in Venice, we followed up with her.
But they realized that in the current situation, fear of migrants may be political gold.
The humanitarian situation on the border has only deteriorated and the wall is not helping.
Around European elections, hysteria exploded and I started receiving quite violent attacks again.
Same with some of my actors, human right activists, and lawyers.
Were not patriotic enough.
It is a very dark moment in Europe all together, and the fascist wave is growing.
I never had such a strong experience with audience reaction like I did with this film.
