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From my view, everyone would be dead, he said.
There wasnt a hope for us getting this far.
The operative word is us.
(Bassist John Hassall and drummer Gary Powell, always the peripherals, round out the quartet.)
The drug use was rampant.
Security guards were summoned to protect one from the other.
The cycle of hope and hurt kept repeating.
At least thats what they assumed.
Every journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step, Barat says now.
Responds Doherty, And about a thousand cuts.
Hassall and Powell are even credited as writers for the first time.
I dont think we ever really did feel unified in this way before, Doherty admits.
(Theyre really making me jump through hoops, he says of the U.S.
In the past weve worked hard, but its always been in conjunction with a jolly good knees up.
Carl Barat:And lo and behold, we got a record.
:Im not knocking the system.
Im just saying its very difficult and Im surprised by your puritanical adherence to it.
Because after day three I was ready for a glass of cider purely as a reward system.
:After a minute, if I remember.
Is it just the New Testament or the whole Bible?
:So not the New one.
Theres room for improvement.
I was impressed by that.
Every day I had to learn which Carl to be for which Pete.
But I witnessed those changes.
That determines the whole day.
Its a bit like the life of nuclear waste.
Theres a certain period that has to pass before it stops being lethal.
:Ive learned to deal with temper and read the fucking room before I go in there.
Pete, youve described the albums creation as coming from a moment of rare peace.P.D.
Were now rolling up our sleeves and taking it out on the road in a way we never did.
Now its come through self-love and looking after yourself in terms of mental illness and physical wellbeing.
Weve reached a point where were doing ice baths and breathing.
We might even have to do group therapy one day just to see what its all about.
:LikeThe Simpsonsand thosebats and electric buzzers.
:We could use a Dr. Marvin Monroe.
Who served as a central peacemaker for you two over the years?P.D.
:Who can both sides trust?
Just take the headshot and ask questions later.
:Its only through us finding a place in our connection through songs.
I guess youd normally say the bass player, but in aSpinal Tapway.
:John normally takes Carls side anyway.
:No he doesnt.
They were reasons to stay alive and not to die at 25.
Do you still consider that mythology to be a critical part of the band?C.B.
:Hemingway once described his writing as giving one-eighth of the iceberg.
The lines you selected all relate to entire spheres of that.
Is it mythology or is it real?
Was it all just a dream?
It feels so stacked up in that song.
For the band, theyre still as important maybe more important than ever.
Its very arcadian in outlook and in depth.
Among the most enduring images of you both, for example, are in red guards jackets.
Maybe the fact were a mixed-race band gave it a slightly different spin.
:We grew up in the antique-shop relics of the empire.
The dusty bugles, the moth-eaten jackets, and tales of valor and unity.
:War and militarization was a big part of what we did but almost in a theatrical way.
Everyone from the Beatles to the Sex Pistols used military imagery.
I thought it was quite a mod thing as well.
The Kinks, the Small Faces, that psychedelic vibe.
At the time that was more what I was going for.
:I love that album so much andArthur, which is much in that theme of an empire.
Its a very strange album to listen to in these times and the way people now look at empires.
Ive seen that more successfully in England than Ive seen in other countries.
:Music is the perfect way to align these things culturally.
Whats that Beatles song where the line is, the English army had just won the war?
:Come on, man, A Day in the Life.
:Its one of our favorite songs.
:Are you sure its not there in the original?
In my head, its there.
:There you go.
Its the power of suggestion.
Pete, how has becoming sober affected your songwriting?
Do you have a different standard for when you sit down to write?P.D.
:I suppose theres less of a routine for me without using.
I dont think its changed the quality of what I do just less late nights.
Two or three in the morning always used to be the time where I would get locked into something.
There are certain things Im doing now that I definitely wouldnt have been able to do before.
Im in the moment of transition.
Id like to think its going to make me a lot more productive, but we shall see.
As a band, do you feel unfairly weighed down by the baggage of your legacy?P.D.
:It depends on the quality of the interviewer.
:Im so over it.
I think I was always in denial a bit like impostor syndrome.
:Youve got plenty to pick from, Carl.
:Did you write Salome all on your own?
Or was that a secret co-write?
:I wrote that one.
:I was a bit gutted about Salome.
I know thats how we operate.
So thats uncomfortable data.
:Not at all.
I can genuinely enjoy your music without the green-eyed monkey appearing on my shoulder.
It couldve been yours.
:But its not.
The less obvious one would be Fuck Forever.
Thats just a belter.
It touches my love.
:There were many moments I put aside to listen to Carls solo projects.
Hippys Son it was like a short burst of machine-gun fire and guitars with a spangled stream of consciousness.
Oh, France as well.
But the difference was they all knew it now.
This interview has been edited and condensed.
